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policy he was relying on when he submitted his application says that a coffee cart should not be considered like a diner. all of the people who have been speaking except for starbucks, which isn't here have said that they are operate full-day menus and dpw's stance in this and consistent application of the guidelines has to been to look at totality of the menu. we're merely asking for consistent application of the guidelines. the guidelines say that they are aloud to consider like foods. they don't have to say no, but they can consider them. that is what dpw did here. okit method of measurement that dpw uses to determine like foods is clearly a walking distance. the appellants made a big deal how everywhere in the guidelines it talks about radius and radius and radius and one place it doesn't. to me, exactly the opposite. the fact that it doesn't say 300' radius there, means that
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you can do a 300' walking distance which is, in fact, exactly what police department did in past times. regarding the restroom issue, i think we have the owner of the facility that is going to provide the restroom here tonight to speak with you. but i think it's suffice to say that you don't need ada accessible. we have been through this with department of sanitation and the appellant want to the department of sanitation to get this revoked and it didn't work. so i don't know what their issue is. the issue with sidewalk services i would like to use the overhead for one minute to show you the two truck locations. this is the truck location on 2nd street. as you can see the truck location is here. there is a clear path of travel. there are few tables out here, outside of the path of travel. similarly on front street, this is the truck location. there
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is a 16' wide sidewalk. and no tables and chairs along here. so those are big deals and they are arguing that there is all of this construction. well, dpw can always stop people from parking in those parking spaces. if they are concerned about blockage, they can do, that otherwise anybody can park there. so those are all issues to by cred when talking about this. the last issue notice not provided correctly. this overhead show where's the notice was provided. as you can see it's the midpoint of the block face. there are small streets. it's true, but look at the name of the block. block 370 7. block 370 7. block 3707. this is an assessor's block. this is the midpoint of the block face. so i would like to you consider all of these things and i would like you to
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consider that my client has tried in > faith for 15 months to comply with this process. and i hope that as you know the city may be changing policy, but for the last 15 months he has been working with existing city policy and good faith and has done nothing wrong and just wants the chance to be a good neighbor. thank you very much. >> i have a question. >> yes. so how far is the bathroom from the location of the truck? >> gary? >> 100', maybe. >> about 100' is what gary is saying. >> excuse us. >> what we can do, if you would like, we can work with the restaurant owner and see if we can get a map available to show to you during public comment period. would that be okay? >> okay. >> thank you.
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mr. kwong. >> good evening commissioners john kwong from the department of public works. there appears to be a continual different interpretations from the various parties related to the department's process. let's first go to the notification. the notification as stated by the various partis is correct about what is a truck. it's located -- the notification is to be 300' radius from the mid-point of the block or the length of block, whichever is greater. that is how the legislation is written up. when it's a food cart as such at a specific property address it's 300' from that throt.lot. it's relates to the evaluation of like foods, the department
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tries its best to make sure it's been 300'. we make that determination as it relates to like foods. now to suggest that we use a 300' radius, it would be as the bird flies, which would not be appropriate. previously under the previous legislation that has been since suspended which came from the san francisco police department, the police department requires 600' distance, which the police department actually uses a measuring wheel to wheel off for their validation. this has been the practice of the police department. and the department of public works sees no reason to establish another way of evaluating these distances. it would not be possible for staff to walk through buildings and what not. it must be a walking distance for us to accurately determine the distances. there was a question again going back to like foods. we have people suggesting that in the morning, all they serve
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is coffee and that is competition as it relates to like food. however, as stated previously, again, in our order, as to established guidelines, we determine like food by looking at the totality of the menu in order to be fair and consistent. otherwise, there is no way for the department to make that evaluation. we literally have to send someone out there and stand there for different timeframes, in order to make that determination. that would not be propriety. appropriate. >> there were questions related and i have to apologize. when i went back and reevaluated the finding from the director, we made a small error putting down 3 radius. it should be 300 feet. there is no way we do determine that.
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i don't think the department has made any incorrect decisions. we go understand this is a very challenging piece of legislation for the board. and this is quite different from the appeal for no. 12, which is almost polar opposite. again, in our evaluation we evaluate like foods and also distances, obviously. at 290 feet from a wheeling distance from a parking spot, it could be 290. it could be 310. depending on where on the parking space, it's a 20-foot stall and it depends on where you start the count from. it's right at the border and we recognize that. and we believe our decision was propriety in this case. i'm ready to answer any
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questions that you may have. based upon the information provided by the applicant, because we are given the mailing information from an applicant, much like planning does and we have to take that as fact based upon an affidavit from the company that created that or the applicant. >> have you verified that the information given by the applicant is true to the notification that was given? >> at the initial notification, it was correct. >> thank you. >> we'll take public comment now. can i see a show of hands of how many people will speak to this item.
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keep in mind any owners of the business listed as 2nd street merchants should not be participating at this time. if you could please line up on the far wall and if you have not already filled out a speaker card, you are not required to, but it helps us in the preparation of minutes. >> i will limit testimony to two minutes. >> okay. first speaker can begin. >> good evening commissioners. ken cleveland, representing the building owners and managers association. i would just like to go back to the starbucks objection. the applicant seems to feel that starbucks does not continue to object. i talked to kim winston, who is the senior manager for government affairs for starbucks, and starbucks is loath to be publicly opposed to small independents, of course. they are 17,000 nationwide/world wide operation and they are not going to come
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out as an 800 -pound gorilla to opposite this. they sent an email to the department of public works that states to [pwho-pl/] it may concern, starbucks is opposed tot application submitted by expresso subito. while we are not opposed to expresso subito's operations we object to the proposed locations for the trucks. they have not rescinded the objection. i think that is very relevant. thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> and if you could come forward and line up by mr. pacheco, that will save second here's. >> my name is john gaser, adolph [tkpwa-ers/], inc. and i want to deal with the ingress
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and egress of people moving on 2nd street. 2nd street is 15' of saluki on either side. and as the parties showed there is lots of room. well, there isn't lots of room. >> can you refer to the overhead? >> you will see people standing for this food truck and they are 9' or more of the sidewalk occupied by those people. that means there is 6' left for two-way traffic to go. i recently went to the bank and the truck was there, and we were crushed trying to get into the bank. that is one area of real concern to me. the second area i have with concern on 2nd street between market and mission, there is only two metered parking places. everything else is yellow zoned and red-zone. so where is the normal people who may want to go to the other stores on the street going to park? you are issuing permits for
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trucks, that are occupying parking spaces for business. another thing that bothers me, the trucks are giving the food out, so no one is saying it's a restaurant. the city is not getting any sales tax. we pay sales tax to the city. you are losing. we're geting into more areas. construction. this is common view on 2nd street. 2nd street is under massive construction. and it will be. and if you keep putting the truck in there, we're going to have a nightmare on 2nd street. so i think i would like you to reconsider what you are looking at. also the health problem. we have got a flu epidemic going. you want the people who are serving you food to be properly -- [ inaudible ] >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> can we ask people not to repeat what has been stated by others.
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thank you. >> i am jeff knoll, i work as an inspector for the san francisco health department. i'm not here representing the city. i am here as a coffee drinker. i am in and out of restaurants regularly, and instead of standing in line at a restaurant, i would rather grab a quick cup of good coffee at expresso subito. >> my name is lynn person and i have lived and worked in san francisco for the last 29 years. i'm a business person in downtown and i guess i'm repeating a little bit of what he just said. this grab and go service, these trucks, this mobile truck industry is very valuable. it's a needed service for business people like myself. i will at times, when i have time frequent the restaurants and the coffee shops downtown.
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i have meetings and he use their internet and sit and have coffee there when i have time. when i don't, those trucks are a valuable service and i think that permit should be uphold. >> next speaker, please. >> good evening commissioners, my name is robert bookbinder; i had a long career at the san francisco water department, 25 years. i am recently roo tired. i spent many nights and days working on the streets of san francisco especially downtown. our work crews strive it get our job done properly, and quickly. the trucks on the streets were a great help to us over the years. they made a great product. they were convenient and efficient. we did a better job because of their presence.
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it's only fair and just that this permit be upheld. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> hello, my name is kent mullan. i have been a resident of california for almost 40 years. i believe and i am a coffee drinker and i believe, again, expresso subito provides a unique and coon convenient service and even though the other stores there are times as stated i go in when i have a meeting. i do not use them regularly because my life is too hectic and they are too busy. i want to rereiterate the entrepreneur from expresso subito has been waiting a year and a half for action and put out a lot of money. this would really be an unjust action if this were to be repealed. haze two young
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daughters and i family to support and now he is at that state after almost a year and a half. thank you. >> next spark. >> if it's all right i'm going read from a transsculpt of mare 28th appeal and play an audio file from the december 12th appeal. is that all right? >> >> this is from mr. james walsh. there is muffin muffin, about
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half a block away that serves espresso, as well as sellers market, which is across the tv i'm confused by the references that the only compete on the street is starbucks and they don't count. by the way those people who are working hard, they are local, and i think that is not to be whole-hearted by thrown off the table. this second [stra-pbz/] script is from michelle tran speaking on behalf of muffin and muffin. my parents own muffins muffin and i'm concerned. i was going to say that although they are applying for 84 2nd street they will literally be half a block from my parent's shop. we also do sell coffee, espresso and we have been doing for the last 20 years. sellers market would be one block away from the proposed site. i'm opposed to this cafe, in that this area has a lot of coffee service and will not
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bring about new customers for new items. thank you. may i? this is [ inaudible ] >> i have been in this business for 50 years, family business. i am here just to make a simple comment and i will be very brief. by all standards, be it the california department of health, the san francisco
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department of health, or all fda standards, coffee is one beverage; it is considered one product. no different than wine. it's all considered wine. so when someone says that they are not serving a like product, it is a semantical game that no attorney would fall for. there is one product and that product is coffee. >> good evening. tom is trotman speaking on behalf of one the owners who couldn't be here today, michael o'brien. so i'm going read from his letter that you have. it states -- >> excuse me, are you speaking on believe of an owner who is
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part of the 2nd street merchant? >> he is a merchant, yes. >> you are reading from someone who is, so why don't you save it for the rebuttal? [ inaudible ] >> okay that. is fine. thank you for the clarification. >> i will quickly read through this. i am writing to urgently object to the issuance of this permit and any other food truck permits that wish to park in the financial district. the specific truck expresso subito did not notify me or my business of their intent to park across from my restaurant. lawsuit state has it all businesses within 300' must be notified. and there are some other objections that are also raised here for the same reason. current restaurantslocated within one block pay an average of $11,000 base rent. versus approximately $500 a year for automatic food truck permit. my restaurant will suffer and food sales severely.
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the ordinance states that these trucks are not permanent and having a truck that sell sels monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, he each day of the work qualifies as a permanent structure. it's about the money and the customers we will lose due to the low-cost of food that this applicant will charge. if one food truck is approved more will follow. the question is where is the support from the city on behalf of the existing businesses that are brick-and-mortar? trash will increase dramatically and the homeless will go through the trashcans more frequently. no ada requirements. grease disposal requirement is not mentioned. homeless population will increase due to trash scavenging. the city does not have the manpower to enforce the
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regulations. thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. and again, if the speakers could please step forward and line up closer to mr. pacheco, i promise he will not bite. >> my name is bonnie suprain, a owner of the book company and daughter of the building at 48 and 440 2nd street. my concern as a business owner on that block of 2nd street is that the department of public works has a very large plan in places 2nd street improvement plan, which is meant to increase pedestrians, add bicycle lanes and at the last meeting of the department of public works presented on that plan, i'm sorry this is such a bad xerox of this thing i'm showing on the overhead. but the 2nd street area between market and harrison, there is sidewalk. there is a bike lane
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and then there is a planting barrier, parking and traffic and the same thing on the other side. so they are going to be reducing the amount of parking spaces on the entire block between market and mission to four parking spaces. expresso subito would be using two of the four on the entire block. i have customers, many of them walk, but some of them drive. there are deliveris that happen all day. i don't feel it's the right use of city parking to be giving two of them away for the four hours each week. thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> good evening my name is khalifed ramadan. my and a half and i own sunrise deli at 54 2nd street. i signed and allowed expresso
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subito and gary and his employees to use our restroom. on the overhead, the location, our location is here. his truck is proposed at 84 2nd street. the reason i signed allowing him to use our restroom facility, we support small businesses, all small businesses no matter the shape or the size. and i don't think starbucks really needs our help. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. >> good evening my name is robin gross. i am an event planner and i'm in and out of downtown all the time. one of the reasons this is of interest to me is that as we know, the lines in the coffee shops as was spoken before are quite long. one of the issues that i wanted to bring up.
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that my understanding is that the hours of operation for expresso subito is from 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m. on two locations and varying between the 2nd street location and the other location. so i do understand the issue of parking. i do understand downtown being really tight. i definitely understand people's concerns. but we are talking about 6-10 in the morning. i understand, i have seen the truck in operation. he is in and out of that spot in about 15 minutes after he is finished. so a lot of the concerns that people have seem to be more during the day. and i feel that mr. goldstein has tried to do his best to make this work for everybody. i did want to show one of the
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issues i heard through frequenting his current truck is the issue of royal exchange. and everybody has concerned about royal exchange. no. 1 they don't open until 11:00 a.m. they are open from 11:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. and in review of their menu, there is not even a mention of coffee. not under any of the drinks. so i really feel that given his length of service to san francisco in terms of business from the '70s with his bagel shop that his permit be granted and i appreciate your time. thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> yes, good evening. my name is scott cronenburg and i want to document some of the history of gary goldstein as a business person. that has benefited san francisco. in 1979 gary and i opened holy bagel in what was known then as
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the mission district. we had to go through numerous hearings with the planning commission to get a conditional use permit. but we prevailed and the outcome of that was that we eventually had four successful stores in san francisco generating thousands of dollars in sales tax, license fees, paraphernalia payroll taxes. the original holy bagel is still in business on 24th street. it's now going on 34 years.
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gary has only benefited the city of san francisco through community outreach, donations. he has donated food products and money from anywhere from casa delas mad reses to the san francisco unified school district. i believe it's the job of city and county of san francisco to create business and i don't think this is the proper venue to vet what the processes of the department of public works are, which were followed wreckly. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. >> my name is nigel hall and i remember a small business in marin and i come into the city frequently and invariably i'm in a rush. you don't stop in a store to get a coffee when you are busy
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rushing from one place to another. and the food trucks and coffee trucks are a great addition to the city. they satisfy a very specific need and it's very different to the market for people who go to a specific location to get coffee or get food. the city is very entrepreneurial focus and they support a lot of tech companies, expresso subito is a great example of an entrepreneurial business and the city has a great food culture. and the espresso food trucks are a great manifestace of that, a recent manifestation, expresso subito combine those elements and is only going to be an asset to the city. i think you should go forward and uphold the permit that has already been granted. thank you. >> next speaker, please. >> hi, my name is lee ann